First a truism of all online games, and especially EVE Online: the majority of players will flock to the easy money.
ISK is a necessity. It buys you all the in-game items you need to play EVE Online. Since items are continually being destroyed, players need a regular influx of in-game currency to replace what they have lost, so that they can continue playing the game.
ISK earning is rarely the sort of game play that is exciting and captivating. Especially in EVE Online, it's usually dull and monotonous. Thus players will flock to income earning that affords them the most ISK in the least amount of time with the least amount of hassle. This allows them to return to areas of the game that do capture their interest.
(EDIT: I got the math wrong. In calculating ISK/LP potential, I was basing it off the old T5 values and working backwards, not taking into account the changing ISK cost for many of the items. Thus the 1250 ISK/LP I was assuming is actually much worse. The current loyalty point store now pays out around 625 ISK/LP on most items. I'm also being generous and assuming that the markets bounce back to pre-Inferno prices. Currently, with most markets crashed, the ISK/LP earning potential is closer to 250 ISK/LP.)
Take faction warfare. For the losing side, sitting at T1 warzone control, the best case scenario for ISK earning while offensive plexing is ~20M ISK per hour. That's 2.5 major plexes per hour, which takes into account travel time between buttons, and shooting rats (which is now, a requirement). Again, that's a best case scenario. It doesn't take into account being interrupted by the enemy, fighting, running, getting your ship destroyed, reshipping, etc. So income potential for the losing side will be below that 20M ISK per hour best case potential. 15M ISK per hour is probably more realistic.
(I'm not complaining that there'll be more PvP in plexing. That's fantastic. Cuts down on farming. I'm just pointing out that it does decrease income potential.)
The thing is, there is better income earning potential outside of faction warfare. Why bother running plexes for 15M ISK per hour, when you can do L4 missions in highsec for 40-60M ISK per hour?
The goal of the faction warfare changes, this massaging of the numbers, is to increase the amount and quality of the PvP in faction warfare. But what is likely to happen, due to the penalizing of the losers, is that the PvP decreases.
Faction warfare players tend to lose 500M - 1.5B ISK in ships per month, on average. Faction warfare players, unlike players in other areas of the game, are expected to be more self-sufficient. Their corps and alliances don't have the luxury of large passive sources of income to support extensive ship replacement programs and the like. Thus, folks in faction warfare need a steady source of income to replace their losses, and they do this on their own time.
If you're on the winning side, at T5 control, offensive plexing will get you about 85M ISK per hour (best case scenario, 75M ISK per hour is probably realistic.) Faction warfare mechanics allow them to earn a very good income from within the system itself. The losing side, though ... not so much.
What I expect will happen, if the losing side ends up at T1 warzone control most of the time, is that players go elsewhere to earn their income, outside of the faction warfare system. This will have the end result of actually decreasing PvP. If you're missioning in highsec for your income, you're no longer partaking in faction warfare.
Which is why I have come to feel that penalizing the losing sides of faction warfare is not conducive to the stated goals of this new system. If you want players to remain within the system, if you want them available for PvP at all times, the system must guarantee an income commensurate (or better) than incomes available outside of faction warfare.
Of course, time will tell. We'll have to see how the new mechanics play out. It might be the case that the losing side maintains T2 control with minimal effort. Or that might not be the case at all. If T1 warzone control is the norm for the losing side, then I suspect my prediction is not far off the mark.
No wonder Amarr is "losing" the war. You can't do math. It is a shame that you are better at math than PVP.
ReplyDeleteYou are sort of correct, sir. The math was correct. Was simply plugging the wrong number into one of the variables in the equation.
DeleteAt T1, a major plex rewards ~12500 LP. At T5 a major plex rewards 56250 LP. LP per ISK, at the new, static LP store prices is ~625 ISK/LP.
The biggest problem I see is that LP gained trough PvP is also dynamically scaled via the tier system.
ReplyDeleteWith the old system there was the promise that maybe all that LP your where accumulating would be worth something one day.
But now, with the instant LP scaling; Every action you take that gives you LP is best done as the winner.
Now for people just in it for the money it obviously always has been a easy choice to go for the winners. But for PvP'ers there was the promise of more targets and a potential that one day their LP would be worth something.
That's now taken away, only the more targets argument remains. For groups like agony that would be/and is enough. But I doubt that that would be enough for all potential pvp organisations that are looking to join FW.
Granted, pvp'ers in faction war aren't as important as plexers, but still.
Although I have to say I'm sort of dual about this. On one hand I'm thinking "I've never gotten anything for killing before. Why should it bother me now". But on the other hand I'm going to be making the same kills as the other guys, but CCP is going to give me less LP for it.
I think the best option would be just to remove LP entirely from FW :)
"Faction warfare players tend to lose 500M - 1.5B ISK in ships per month, on average. "
ReplyDeleteDo you think Retribution is going to make pvp cheaper? Viable T1 cruisers and frigates should help and in low sec you should rarely lose your pod.
Lol, what do you think we fly bro?
DeleteWhy is where PvE AT ALL in Faction WARfare?
ReplyDeleteJust remove all NPCs and missions. With some thinking a reward system based on PvP or on taking systems can be designed. Without PvE content.
faction WARFARE shoudnt need 'easy money' as an incentive to get ppl to join, poe. CCP is trying to find the balance between encouraging ppl to pvp, while getting isk if they manage to plex without getting killed (so as to keep them wanting to plex, which incidentally will also throw them into more pvp). the previous system detrimentally affected the entire game, and no such easy isk making opportunity should exist.
ReplyDeleteThere's has to be some middle ground between 5000 ISK/LP (previous system) and 625 ISK/LP. CCP always goes from one extreme to the other.
DeleteAnd yes, there is one small set of items (datacores) in the loyalty point store that will currently get you 2500 ISK/LP ... but that's going to last about two weeks before those prices start to crash.
Keep in mind that there was a drastic increase in liquid isk as a result of FW. Furthermore, Faction *Warfare* is meant for pvp, not pve. The isk should just comfort the newer players out there that some small amount of isk can still be made, while learning the tricks of the trade. The previous implementation of FW was just a massive gameplay design failure, and while I'm not saying 15m/hr is great by any means, 15m/hr is still the worst case scenario, in which no one tries to get higher than T1.
DeleteWhen FW changes first occured back at the start of inferno, for the first month (when you hadn't joined minnie FW yet. and i know this, because I was in the same corp as you), minnie sat at t3 and amarr at t2 for a good long time. Then, only when Amarr realised it would actually be better if they said 'fuck it, we'll just make alts, join Minnie FW and reap T5 rewards too', then things became a T5 - T1 rivalry.
Now that *thats* gone chances are it will be slightly more even; the pvers can now leave and let people who are interested in pvp to try and change FW for the better. Of course, I'm sure there are some things that FW can do to improve, but I dont think increasing isk/hr is something that should be done.
The notion that people are going to move from PVP'ing to running L4 missions just because the FW spigot is being turned off is utterly absurd. Those are two completely different experiences. Why do you imagine that one will woo players away from the other? I mean, shit, I know the first thing I'm gonna jump ship for if I'm into PVP is running a bunch of stale L4 missions all by my lonesome. Yeah, that sounds like a sweet replacement. What the hell are you smoking, Poe, because I have the feeling I'd like it.
ReplyDelete